I don't like the Singer 911. Sorry.

"JayZAyEighty thinks C4+3=C7" (jayzayeighty) 11/25/2013 at 21:14 • Filed to: opporschetlock

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It takes a classic car, with all of its character and lazy pace, and turns it into a soft-edged modern plaything of obscenely rich guys. I wish people would just enjoy old cars for what they are and not do hipsterestorations (it's a word now).

Also: this applies to most restomods of this type.

?w=930

davedave1111 > JayZAyEighty thinks C4+3=C7 11/25/2013 at 21:15

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You're wrong, but we won't hold it against you. Also, you mis-spelt your new word.

No Prius Needed > JayZAyEighty thinks C4+3=C7 11/25/2013 at 21:16

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But but gulf livery....

BlazinAce - Doctor of Internal Combustion > JayZAyEighty thinks C4+3=C7 11/25/2013 at 21:16

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I agree with you on this one, I'm not a big fan of restomods either. Though the Singer isn't the worst offender in my opinion. I dislike far more those guys who take old muscle cars and try to update both the mechanicals and the appearance to make it look like it was built nowadays.

JR1 > JayZAyEighty thinks C4+3=C7 11/25/2013 at 21:17

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I could not agree more! By changing the car you lose character and history!

JayZAyEighty thinks C4+3=C7 > davedave1111 11/25/2013 at 21:17

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Ok, then it's all good. Thanks for letting me know about the typo.

JayZAyEighty thinks C4+3=C7 > No Prius Needed 11/25/2013 at 21:18

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Okay, okay—that one is excused.

PowderHound > JayZAyEighty thinks C4+3=C7 11/25/2013 at 21:18

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But there are wider tires for more hoonage! Think of the children!

Casper > JayZAyEighty thinks C4+3=C7 11/25/2013 at 21:20

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I would have to completely disagree. Modernizing an old car breaths new life into it. Unless you are keeping something original for collectors sake, there is no logical reason to not improve it. By this logic you are against all hot rods, tuners, etc.

scoob > JayZAyEighty thinks C4+3=C7 11/25/2013 at 21:21

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THIS IS THE INTERNET. YOU ARE NOT ALLOWED TO DISAGREE WITH ME.

JayZAyEighty thinks C4+3=C7 > BlazinAce - Doctor of Internal Combustion 11/25/2013 at 21:23

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True. Those ones drive me crazy. I was walking by the autotech garage, and there was a rusty early-70s monte carlo outside in all of its glory with patina and small wheels and gas-guzzling, loud, lazy engine. What's the point of a classic (you can do without the patina) without those fundamental characteristics?

Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire > JayZAyEighty thinks C4+3=C7 11/25/2013 at 21:24

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From what I've seen and read on them, he doesn't turn them into anything soft-edged. If anything, he accentuates their character and makes the driving experience even more raw and natural.

JayZAyEighty thinks C4+3=C7 > Casper 11/25/2013 at 21:25

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Revitalizing a car is very different than diminishing its character. Therefore, I would have to disagree with that overarching statement.

BlazinAce - Doctor of Internal Combustion > JayZAyEighty thinks C4+3=C7 11/25/2013 at 21:28

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Exactly. I'll always prefer something like this:

To something like this:

Casper > JayZAyEighty thinks C4+3=C7 11/25/2013 at 21:29

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You can disagree and be incorrect, it is your right. However, the cars "character" can be preserved even with the car it's self being modernized... unless it's a Yugo or something in which it's character was the faulty mechanics in the first place.

Everything that is new will be old, so if you are against any improvements, customizations, or modifications, you are against them all.

The Opponaut formerly known as MattP123 > JayZAyEighty thinks C4+3=C7 11/25/2013 at 21:30

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I don't mind restomods as long as they don't bastardize a nice original car. If you're going to do a restomod it might as well be to save a car that already needs a full restoration and would otherwise be scrapped or left to rust away, unless that car in such disrepair is something rare and desirable, like a Charger Daytona or 63 Corvette. Keep the nice original time capsule cars original, even if they are a bare bones undesirable car.

JayZAyEighty thinks C4+3=C7 > Casper 11/25/2013 at 21:33

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I am sorry to disagree with your opinion when I have been deemed incorrect; I guess you have to be fully pro/con on any issue. No more opinionated posts for me—my opinions are dead wrong, even though they are just opinions.

Scott Keelan > JayZAyEighty thinks C4+3=C7 11/25/2013 at 21:34

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I respectfully disagree. I personally view the Singer 911 as a cool alternative to modern super/hyper cars. I think it's a great car for an enthusiast with deep pockets and an "old fashioned" or "traditional" taste in cars that wants something new without flappy paddles or a million horsepower.

Casper > JayZAyEighty thinks C4+3=C7 11/25/2013 at 21:35

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An opinion can be just as wrong as an idea. The logic dictates such. Declaring something an "opinion" does not exempt it from the reality of the world.

You can dislike the Singer due to having your own preferences, having driven it and just not liking the product, etc, and have it protected as an opinion. You can't dislike the concept with the logic provided without being subject to all the rules surrounding the involved hypocrisy it would create.

JayZAyEighty thinks C4+3=C7 > Scott Keelan 11/25/2013 at 21:40

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Good points (I think a better driving experience makes a better car as well), but I just feel that while it is an improvement in specs, it takes away from the original car and turns it into something less 911-esque and classic. Not to say the Singer is bad IMO, but it is just not as enjoyable. Now I have stepped yet further into the talking-out-of-my-ass dept., so I will end on that note.

wbizarre - OEM fetishist > JayZAyEighty thinks C4+3=C7 11/25/2013 at 21:40

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Old 911's are great, no doubt about it. But the job Singer does is mind-blowing to me. Granted I haven't driven any 911, old, new, stock, or modernized, but it seems to me Singer is doing their best to retain the 911's character. After all, they're using a lot of oem 911 parts. They're cherry-picked from many generations, sure, but it's different from dumping a Jeg's catalog into an old Camaro. And if you so desire, they can make it as "hard-edged" as you'd like.

When I was fortunate enough to spend a couple days in Berlin I saw a couple old 911's running about. They were in base trim, on stock wheels, with fading paint and one or two rust spots. They didn't sound or act like demons from Hell, but modestly jogged with the flow of traffic. Their brakes squeaked occasionally at a stoplight. They seemed to be daily drivers. They were fantastic to observe.

Louros > JayZAyEighty thinks C4+3=C7 11/25/2013 at 21:44

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All Singers are based on the 964 chassis, they are hardly "old" cars.

JayZAyEighty thinks C4+3=C7 > Casper 11/25/2013 at 21:46

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I understand your reasoning, but it just doesn't apply to this situation. You're telling me that, because I don't like one particular restomod, I can't like the spec miata down the street. This is really on more of a case-by-case basis because each car is different and each modification is different. Can I not like not like any new cars because I think that most provide a crummy driving experience, etc.?

Casper > JayZAyEighty thinks C4+3=C7 11/25/2013 at 21:49

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No, I'm telling you that because of your statements.

"I wish people would just enjoy old cars for what they are and not do hipsterestorations (it's a word now)."

and

"Also: this applies to most restomods of this type."

lucky's pepper > JayZAyEighty thinks C4+3=C7 11/25/2013 at 21:51

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What's wrong with updating and improving the performance of a car? That's how I perceive a Singer Porsche. Just improving the original. If I took a Fox-body Mustang and did the normal performance upgrades to the engine, changed the rear drums to disks and and put on larger wheels with modern rubber, have I now ruined it? Must everyone leave their cars just like they rolled off the assembly line?

Whether it's a Singer 911 or a second generation F-body from Detroit Speed, the character of the cars is kept, they are just being made better.

JayZAyEighty thinks C4+3=C7 > Casper 11/25/2013 at 21:55

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I did not specify what a hipsterestoration was, nor did I say that all resto-mods are bad. Also, not liking most restomods is still no reason for me not to like other modified cars. Can we just respectfully disagree, here? This discussion is really going nowhere.

JayZAyEighty thinks C4+3=C7 > lucky's pepper 11/25/2013 at 21:58

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I may have been too vague in my reasoning (most of it is just a feeling without much sensibility), but you make good points. I am all for car modification, but I think the Singer 911 has been resto-modded in a way that is most idolized by non- car enthusiast people with deep pockets and a desire for uniqueness. That Foxbody is a different story in most cases.

Casper > JayZAyEighty thinks C4+3=C7 11/25/2013 at 22:01

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That is where the conversation started. You were the one that attempted to justify an illogical conclusion with hypocrisy and ambiguity. If you had stated that you simply didn't like the Singer as an opinion point without attempting to justify it logically, you would have been safe with an opinion. Taking it further provides a logic path that you can be proven incorrect on.

SLR999 > JayZAyEighty thinks C4+3=C7 11/25/2013 at 22:06

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I would agree - I prefer the SWB 1963-1968 901/911s the most, but the Singer is only taking 964s as base material.

So no loss of the black sheep of the air-cooled lineup, in my opinion.

lucky's pepper > BlazinAce - Doctor of Internal Combustion 11/25/2013 at 22:15

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I agree that beige mess in the below picture is an abberation, but it's hardly what I'd call a resto-mod. The entire character of the car has been destroyed, something Singer doesn't do with their 911s.

Now this, this is a resto-mod. Though I would've went with some Year One rally IIs or honeycombs.

.

BlazinAce - Doctor of Internal Combustion > lucky's pepper 11/25/2013 at 22:19

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Hehe, Beige Mess, that's what I'm gonna call it from now on... Anyways, that bird is no bad atl all, I'd have gone with different wheels, but at least the looks are mostly intact and there's no "modern-contemporary" striping or graphics either, those are probably what piss me off the most.

As for Singer, I agree they're far from the worst offenders, but I also think that the classic 911s have too strong a character not to remain in a more original state.

lucky's pepper > JayZAyEighty thinks C4+3=C7 11/25/2013 at 22:29

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Maybe I took it wrong, but I'm guessing a few others did too. I can understand disliking a car just because of who it appeals too, I feel the same about the Prius.

JayZAyEighty thinks C4+3=C7 > Casper 11/25/2013 at 22:33

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I really never intended to justify it logically. I think you are over analyzing this post. Anyways, I'm not going to continue arguing about such insubstantial topics.

Burt > JayZAyEighty thinks C4+3=C7 11/25/2013 at 22:34

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I don't have a problem with it, they're making the car fit a specific purpose for them. For example, I want to do a serious buildup of a 77-79 Impala coupe with a modern suspension and drivetrain because I like the style of the car, and I also like punking people at stoplights and recetracks. I also think that being rich doesn't mean that they're idiots and not car guys, but that they have lots of disposable income. I also don't know that you can call any 911 soft-edged. It'll soft-edge you into a tree, backwards.

JayZAyEighty thinks C4+3=C7 > lucky's pepper 11/25/2013 at 22:36

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Nah, I should've been more specific. And yeah I can see what you mean with the target demographic affecting your feelings about a car.

ADabOfOppo; Gone Plaid (Instructables Can Be Confusable) > JayZAyEighty thinks C4+3=C7 11/26/2013 at 00:05

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No.

Bob Loblaw Made Me Make a Phoney Phone Call to Edward Rooney > JayZAyEighty thinks C4+3=C7 11/26/2013 at 00:46

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Looks like we've found the dictionary definition of "speaking out of your ass"

911e46z06 > JayZAyEighty thinks C4+3=C7 11/26/2013 at 02:08

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I'm kind of with you. I don't really like it, but I damn sure respect it.

Manuél Ferrari > JayZAyEighty thinks C4+3=C7 11/26/2013 at 02:14

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I agree because price. If I was going to spend that much I would want a perfectly restored car that wasn't modified. The Singer 911 can reach $500K. For that price I would try to get a genuine Carrera RS 2.7

If I wanted a fast 911 that wasn't original I would build one myself. Why pay Singer that much money for a restomod of the 964 when you could buy a classic 911 roller and mod it yourself. It might not come out as clean or fast but it sure as hell would be a lot cheaper.

BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires > The Opponaut formerly known as MattP123 11/26/2013 at 04:18

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This. If a car is a bit of a rust-bucket, you can do pretty much whatever you like. You're not ruining an original car.

Of course, you can do it with taste or without.

JayZAyEighty thinks C4+3=C7 > Bob Loblaw Made Me Make a Phoney Phone Call to Edward Rooney 11/26/2013 at 07:18

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It's important to do it from time to time! Plus, I've already admitted it down to the term.

Yowen - not necessarily not spaghetti and meatballs > JayZAyEighty thinks C4+3=C7 11/26/2013 at 08:01

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I think it's awesome that you can once again buy a select few classic cars, or at lest piece them together, in the case of the gen 1 Mustang, which has most of its parts available through Ford's catalog, allowing you to restore a car that's otherwise lost to rust, weeds and the elements.

JayZAyEighty thinks C4+3=C7 > SLR999 11/26/2013 at 13:17

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Good point. I forgot they now make them from 964s...

SLR999 > JayZAyEighty thinks C4+3=C7 11/26/2013 at 14:31

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Yeah. In fact, wouldn't the Singer depress the market for original 911s? So it's a good thing for us, ja ?

Evan, Pope Of Jalopnik by Self-Appointment > JayZAyEighty thinks C4+3=C7 11/29/2013 at 20:45

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Soft edged? Lol. Have you seen the spec sheet on the site? I wouldn't call an old, washed-up 911 with tiny brakes, blown shocks, and the old, low-ratio steering a weapon for the track. Enjoyable, sure. But nothing about a Singer is "soft"...and again...what is wrong with a nice car? I do not get this at all.

JayZAyEighty thinks C4+3=C7 > Evan, Pope Of Jalopnik by Self-Appointment 11/29/2013 at 23:36

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I suppose there is both irrational appreciation and irrational dislike, and I have assumed the latter opinion. There's really nothing to judge other than cosmetic details and specs, and I must admit I was talking out of my ass a bit (perhaps more than a bit). I inferred that the conversion takes away the unique qualities of the original 911s and eliminated them with performance upgrades, improvements which usually are outweighed by the lack of the old car's character despite looking better on paper—it's only speculative in the end.

Evan, Pope Of Jalopnik by Self-Appointment > JayZAyEighty thinks C4+3=C7 11/30/2013 at 13:18

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I see. Well, if you're willing to say that, I accept your position. I mean, everyone is different of course.

I think, from what I've heard, they are absolutely sublime to drive. Really, what they tried to do was accentuate the original 911 characteristics, and they've mostly succeeded.